[Panda-monium]: wel thats one way of putting it :P:P

[Dil*]: such enthusiasm :)

[Panda-monium]: :P:P

[bluefarie]: yeah...someone needs 2 assinate him...!

[Dil*]: umm..are you on the members list?

[bluefarie]: yes ithink..

[Dil*]: nope...

[Dil*]: i could add you.

[Citrine]: don't assassinate him! then we'd be stuck with chenney!

[Lord Kügenheim]: woah... you guys seen the poll recently... Bush is sereously losing 3 to 15!

[Christie Shadow]: WEEEE!! I'd really love to take aim and pull a bullet through his wobbly head... He deserves it.

[Monk of Boom]: hahaha.. this is GOOD wiki! =)

[Christie Shadow]: A great wiki, i agree, yes. But we need someone to kill hiM!! We must get rid of him!!

[Goldice]:

killing is bad.although we don't like him, killing is never nessecary!!

[simply sweety]: its really not

[matilogo]: we should not kill him we should just make a mocery of him... ooops sorry he's done that to himself already. no we should force him out of politics not this mortal coil.

[Christie Shadow]: Okay okay, then just lock him into a room and throw the key away, please?

[Lord Kügenheim]: look, bush isnt a bad guy. he just sucks as a world leader. there are plenty of other people that deserve to be locked in a room for eternity. The people who killed Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman for one... although they deserve worse...

[bluefarie]:  

SOMETIMES KILLING IS NECESSARY

[Lord Kügenheim]: not really, give me an example?

[Hutch]: for killing people? or killing in general?

[Lord Kügenheim]: kiling people

[Christie Shadow]: Well, all right, I just don't like the guy. He's not really sane.

[Hutch]: To save your own life, but that's your own decision. Whether you want to live or die and let atleast 12 more people getting murdered.

[Hutch]: It all depends.

[Peregrinus]: Well, I think we can all agree that whether he is or is not Satan incarnate, he's not a good choice for the white house. I would urge any of you who are not already registered to vote to do so imediately!

[Lordterrex]: .......wow... u guys sure come up to insane conclusions about bush whenever im not hear..........

[Panda-monium]: lol yeah really...

[Lordterrex]: ..... i doubthes satans reincarnate.. infact.. depending on ur view of religion... satan cant be reincarnated.... he was never alive period

[matilogo]: satan's reincarnation would not be bush anyway, satan was far too clever to be bush.

[bluefarie]: what ever.....:!

[wiccagal]: and too smart.

[Panda-monium]: I think thats what he meant by clever...

[SatireSweetie]: heh. Our president, shouldn't he (or she) atleast appear to have passed high school, have a GED, or something along those lines?

[Lordterrex]: .... u no.. i was thinking.. maybe bush is like.. a genius.. and hes making himself look stupid to fool people into electing him.. than.. he can take utter control over things...heh

[Panda-monium]: thats just wrong. ppl think Hitler was a genius, I think he was a dumbass with some (very few) good ideas. If he was such a genius why did he loose the war?

[Panda-monium]: I think George Dubbah is a dumb ass too. mhm mhm with NO good ideas

[Zulu]: Well, in religious terms hitler lost the war cos he lost the lance of longinus to the americans, and i think that bush intendently lost the waeapons of mass destruction in Iraq

[Panda-monium]: GRRR... in case you didnt notice it was not only the Americans who fought in that war...now I am going to shut up before I say something that will prolly get me in trouble, (oh and hitler lost that war (religious terms or not) because he was too dumb to learn from the mistakes of Napoleon and the last World war, and started fighting russia opening up a war on two fronts, splitting up his army)

[wiccagal]: PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE HITLER WAS A DUMBASS! WHOOPDEEDOO! is there any reason to try to fight this fact?

[Panda-monium]: I was merely saying...using a similar example to show my opinion on the fact that Bush is also a dumb ass, I didnt mean to fight...

[wiccagal]: i'm not saying that you were exactly fighting. it's just that there is no need to express trhat fact. it's a given.

[Panda-monium]: well...thats what I thought...

[Dil*]: Umm, hitler wasn't a dumbass, he didn't seize all that power by chance, even though he was an evil madman, he was very charismatic to the german people.

[VorpalBlade910]: Hitler was a great man, he took oppurunity when it presented itself and was able to mold the people to his benefit, of course it just wasn't him, the people didn't have a choice really, but they had free will, and most of the Nazi's liked to kill those people, they laughed, lol yeah anyways...i have no clue what ya'll are talking about but I have a passion for Hitler so yeah...

[Lord Kügenheim]: Some people say hitler is a dumbass... of course... they dont actually know what they are going on about...Hitler managed to invade most of europe within four years, which is impressive by any standard. Although he made one fatal mistake in the Battle of Britain, and operation Barbarossa which cost him the entire campaign.

[Lord Kügenheim]: As for the Jewish massacare. Anyone who lives in britain now, that feels "marginalised" by the black population and feels that they should all be "sent home" are experiencing the same feelings as 1940s Germans did. The only reason they were driven to elect a madman such as hitler was that told them what they wanted to hear. Deliveration from the jewish "plauge" that was keeping germany poor after WW1 and deliverence into an empire spanning the globe. Hitler only turned to massacaring the jews when he realised that no matter where he sent them they would always be there and to kill them was the "best option".

[Lordterrex]: .... so what britain wnats to get rid of black people now.... poor black people.. everywher they go they cause trouble

[Panda-monium]: omg...I think I am about to be sick, and thats all there is too it, like I said, Hitler had a few good ideas, but he was a dumb ass none the less. and Glass Tear, thats just wrong, I have a passion for Ghandi, some ppl have a passion for Martin Luther King, But Hitler? Thats sickening. Really it is.

[Pale-Suzie]: what can i say, having studied WW2 as much as i have, i think hitler must at least have had some brain to get so many people to follow him... but i hate his guts to seing as my family is jewish..

[Panda-monium]: I never said he wasnt smart, I mean he had good ideas, and all, and he obviously had a nack for strategizing, but he was still unequivically a dumb ass. *stands by statement*

[Doormat]: well....he was smart until he went to russia....he was such an egotistical bastards cause he wanted to do what napoleon couldn't do.

[matilogo]: he was a dumb ass fulstop, why was a manipulative git that could change peoples minds to his thaughts but he was still a dumb ass, he was a talented speaker but not a clever person.

[Panda-monium]: YAY thank you, Finally someone who makes sense, I thought I might be alone in this theory. phew.

[Lord Kügenheim]: ALL RIGHT WHO PUT THE BANNER IN THEIR HOUSE!!!

[Peregrinus]: This is a strange argument... I don't know what you guys consider a "dumb ass", but Adolf Hitler certainly does not fit that description, in my opinion. He was a deeply persuasive man, with excellent strategic skills and the intelligence to surround hiself with other intelligent people. He was also, of course, totally unbalanced. I mean, the guy had some SERIOUS psychological issues. Plus, he was a greedy, imperialist bastard. But he was definately not stupid. I mean, every tactician makes mistakes, and Hitler made some very large ones, mostly out of desperation and insanity, at the time. They happened to cost him the war, and eventually his life, but everybody makes mistakes.

[Peregrinus]: The particular mistakes he made certainly did work out nicely for the rest of the world, because I think we can all agree, Hitler was one sick bastard, but that hardly qualifies him as stupid. Unless, of course, what you really mean by "dumbass" is "asshole". Which he most certainly was.

[Dil*]: Yes, he was not dumb, though an asshole and insane. Near the end he lost to the allies as much as he lost himself to the insanity. And you have problems if you look up to hitler, like serious problems. And hitler was an artist before he went all military...he painted the nazi symbol that everyone recognizes today and used it in his campaign.

[Peregrinus]: Though I do wish he had never used the schwastika. It's such a catchy symbol, and it didn't always mean what it did with the Nazis.

[Dil*]: ya, and now it's tainted forever, but it was a pretty eye-catching logo, design point of view.

[Panda-monium]: um, ok, and yes peregrinus, I do mean asshole, but also dumb ass, in the sense that he was blinded by his own ego, it made him forget any sense of intelligence he may have had, and there fore, a dumb ass.

[Lordterrex]: ...... hitler was a genius, how can u argue that, how can u call sumone who nearly had the rest of the world at there kness, a dumb ass... i seriously dont get it, lets say albert einstien made an error in a calculation.. woudl u call him a dumbass???.... no u wouldnt, but simply because hitler made a mistake that ended with his suicide... well.... u call him a dumb ass... personaly i think thats very.. dumb ass of u.... hehe.. that didnt make sense.. but... u no what i mean......

[Panda-monium]: lol, yes I do, thats my opinion. I just dont feel he was a genius, even an evil genius. I just personally dont. I never said he wasnt smart, and he had good ideas, but when you factor it all up...I just dont. And if that makes me a dumb ass then so be it. And on top of that, I never hear any one saying Churchhill was a genius, and yet he could see through hitler from the first time he saw him, if ppl had have listened to him, Hitler would never have gotten as far as he did, Yet no one seems to think Churchhill was a genius...(just saying)

[wiccagal]: AHHH TOO MANY COMMENTS! MY BRAIN CAN'T TAKE IT ALL! *dies*

[Panda-monium]: oh, sorry. I hope she gets back up, she was one of the only ppl who thought hitler was a dumb ass too...

[matilogo]: saying albert einstein to be a dumbass because of his calculations going wrong (which they actually did at times) would be silly 'cos that's mistakes, but hitler was a dumbass, one of the most talented dumbasses in history, but a dumbass. it is like saying david becham is smart because he can kick a ball quite well, or britney spears because she can sing in a horrible droan, he was a f*cking talented asshole, my point is still the same.

[Lord Kügenheim]: im sorry [matilogo] but i beg to differ. there arent any dumbasses i know who could bring France (a world superpower of the time)to its knees without firing a single round.

[Peregrinus]: Yeah, military tactics are hardly comparable to a natural talent like one's voice or physical prowess. I wouldn't go so far to say that Hitler was a genius, but he was no idiot.

[Panda-monium]: actually, it was because France had the most dumbly designed defense system in the world, I could have broken in with a nail gun. -_-

[Lordterrex]: .... ouch,.... and ocne again.. everyone hates on france.. hehe, a phisical talent dosent coorilate to a direct genius, but a strategic power can be defined as a genius.. wouldnt u say?.... a type of genius, maybe he sucked ass when it came to math and science, but when it came to the battle field, he stumped a lot of people, it also helped that germany was the greatest military power of its time....

[Panda-monium]: he may have been a good strategist, but when it came to history, he was a dumb ass, and how can someone be considered a genius, if they no nothing of the past? With out the past their can be no future, which is exactly why Hitler failed, to all of our great fortune.

[Lordterrex]: ... history, although a very important factor, is a part of facts, and ignorance comes into play when u think of history, he may not have been taught properly, ignorance and stupidity are different.

[Panda-monium]: not really, not where history is concerned...ignorance of your past is stupidity.

[Lordterrex]: of your past yes, but u smimply said history, that would be ignorance, what do u mean by his passt though?

[Panda-monium]: I mean Humanties past. his past, our past, their past.

[Panda-monium]: well hate to argue and run, but I best be off, its late. ttyl

[Lordterrex]: .. tootles.. gnight...... i stick to what i said though... hitler was a genius

[Dil*]: "Those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it"

[Lordterrex]: true that, but this dosent mean, that they arent a genius, it simply means they are doomed to repeat history

[Dil*]: doomed to repeat what catastrophe that happened in the past.

[Lordterrex]: yes, but that would fall under ignorance again, unnless if u can prove to me... its still ignorance

[kduncan]: LordTerrex, you say that "..this dosent mean, that they arent a genius, it simply means they are doomed to repeat history". So, in effect, you are saying that a person who can't seem to learn from the mistakes of the past is still a genius. I thought a genius would be able to take information, process it, pick out the mistakes.. and manage to not repeat them. A person who is unable or unwilling to learn from the mistakes of others (supposing s/he knows about them, and in this case we are assuming the mistakes are known) is no brainiac.

[Dil*]: hitler was still pretty damn smart, he had to be..., but he was blinded by his obsession to be greater than napolean.

[Lordterrex]: duncan, i said assuming he didnt no the past, all of u harp on american children about being taught the wrong history, well, dont u think its a very good posibility that hitler was taught the wrong history, the history based on how evil everyoen else was, and how great germany was?

[Lord Kügenheim]: He wasent taught anything of the sort [Lordterrex]. Although Hitler was born in austria, he still loved germany and swore revenge against the allies and jews for what happened During WW1 and the treaty of Versailles.

[Lord Kügenheim]: Check out the BHA forum <URL:view_forum.html?forumnr=-1104>

[kduncan]: There is no doubt that text books are slanted to present a certain point of view; all books (textbooks included) are written by someone and are further reviewed by an editor, to expect these people to not have a point of view regarding any specific topic/event in history is naive at best. However, times being what they are and all, there is no longer any real excuse for ignorance: information is readily available via the internet, and this information is presented from a variety of perspectives. To look at an issue from only one perspective is foolish at best, and dangerous at its worst.

[simply sweety]: hello all

[BarleySinger]: There is a rather large amount of US history that was not taught when I was in school in the US, and more that was not taught very even handedly. This is one of the reasons why so many US citizens have no idea what kinds of things their government has done. In the schools I went to, they treated the US as if it were something to worship. There is no admission of the horrible things that were done all over the world in order to manipulate governments and to help major corporations. There is a quote from a speech by a general on Stop Military Slavery that talks about how he fought wars for US bankers and businessmen, and how war (in his words) is "a racket". This view isn't taught.

[BarleySinger]: As for Hitler, Versailles is the reason Hitler was able to get such a stranglehold on the German people. The treaty of Versailles basically said that Germany was totally responsible for WWI, when the truth was that it was an international tantrum, that started when some unimportant Serbian killed the viceroy of Austria Hungry...and suddenly everyone felt the need to go to war die to a set of convoluted treaties. It was stupid. The "winners" (not that anyone ever really wins in a war) blamed Germany for all of it, and made them sign surrender papers saying it was their fault. Hitler the extremest stepped in with his nationalistic mystical visions (complete with Wagner operas) of a ...

[BarleySinger]: "long departed golden age of German glory". It is quite easy is some social environments, for extremists to get power. Anger and fear can work quite well. The pomp and ego and grandure was all very seductive to the German people, who at that time were living in horrible poverty after losing the war. They had to pay huge reparations. The first thing Hitler did, which won him the loyalty of the people, was stop paying that money. As for what he was taught - probably the same nationalistic, racist, theology filled stuff that most people were taught in that period of time. The world was not tolerant of much of anything back then.

[Goldice]: barleysinger, just remember there is a page for long entries, no offence mate but some people genuinly cant read that much.xx

[wiccagal]: *cries* do people expect me to read all this? HITLER WAS A DUMBASS! yeah, so he was a genius. but he used it for evil! EEEEEEEEVIL! get that through your thick little heads! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL!!!!

[Lordterrex]: ... i agree with everything u said barley, just so u no, wiccagal, are u saying that simply because someone is evil, they cant be a genius??

[Lord Kügenheim]: Everyone is evil. Its a naturally human thing. Hitler was just like any other german of the time who had a scapegoat and wanted to make something of himself and his land.

[Dil*]: i don't mind reading, i read 3X the speed of a normal person.

[Lordterrex]: really... well isnt that quite the talent dilandau, i disagree lord k, all humans may have evil feelings, but not all humans do evil things, many have ethics and morals

[Dil*]: been reading shitloads of books since grd 4...i'm such a geek :P

[Lordterrex]: .. lol.. i learned to read in the 3rd grade, ever snince than, ive read for plesure

[Dil*]: umm..how about the spelling?

[Lordterrex]: .. hehehe.... sumtimes my typing is a wee bit sloppy, but im also dyslexic

[Dil*]: oh ya....i thought dyslexic affected speech only?

[Lordterrex]: ... lol.. it dosent affect speech at all, im actualy disgraphic and dyslexic, dyslexic affects how one writes, i will write words backwords on occasion, or just letters,, good thing i have a key board ehh, and disgraphic causes u to see backwords

[Dil*]: whoa...crazy...

[Doormat]: Are you dumasxic too?

[Lordterrex]: ..... funny

[dominoe]: the guya right nut

[shadow xiv]: do you lot think kerry looks like an oompa loompa?

[Goldice]: no his hair aint green

[De Vierde Macht]: maybe if he's more orange

[shadow xiv]: ya his hair does need to be green :/

[De Vierde Macht]: thatto, and he needs to be smaller, no?

[Goldice]: yeh.mor orange nd a bit shorter

[De Vierde Macht]: but the questionis: wich little riddle does he got for us

[shadow xiv]: yah that to >> lol its not the best photo of his new fake tan but he does look funny ^^

[Goldice]: well yeh.of course that is the burning question

[shadow xiv]: yup true

[De Vierde Macht]: as a european, i hope he winns

[shadow xiv]: same here

[De Vierde Macht]: but i'm affraid the judges of daddy bush wil decide once more

[shadow xiv]: yup its always the way innit :/

[De Vierde Macht]: i hop emany êople wil se fahrenheit (i alreaddy saw him 3 times) and vote against buch

[shadow xiv]: yup kerry should win... *snickers at his orangeness*

[De Vierde Macht]: it'll be the best for real world peace

[shadow xiv]: hopefuly... he could be worse than bush! he could like start world war 3 or sumit! then again so can bush Oo its a scarey thought

[De Vierde Macht]: he can go after osamma, to start with

[shadow xiv]: ya... what is scarey is that aparantly kerry, bush, osama and all the like high up people in the world are in a secret order called the illuminatee (cant spell it ^^;) that control the world

[De Vierde Macht]: no, that's to weird to be true....

[shadow xiv]: i saw it last week on conspiracies! i believe it! jus search on the internet! O.o

[De Vierde Macht]: i maybe will  for the moment i'm more interested in the EU and belgean politics

[shadow xiv]: hmm yup and britain aint usin the euro yet.... yet << >> << >>

[De Vierde Macht]: i kno, teh bastards

[shadow xiv]: tho i do prefere the pound ^_^ ish an honorable form of currencey

[simply sweety]: hey all

[Chad !!]: well klw man, i hate George Bush Hes so Gay

[Christie Shadow]: What so if he's gay?? That doesn't make him bad!!! His just stupid - very stupid. And not very clever.

[Dil*]: gay people are okay, but bush is just a jackass :P

[bluefarie]: YUP!!!!

[Goldice]: nuttin wrong with gays.nuttin at all

[esghalis]: i voted kerry. i hate bush too.

[Goldice]: i dint vote cos a)i aint american so i dont get a say in it and b)im not old enough

[bluefarie]: sooooooo.... no one cares...if ur not old enough this is elftown not really voting...duh...

[Christie Shadow]: Well, I couldn't vote either, since I'm not american either, but I still prefer Kerry from Bush.

[ElementGK16]: i made this AWESOME NEW banner that promets kerry i wanna put it in there

[Citrine]: Anyone who's read Vote for Larry, by Janet Tashkian, message me to talk about the political ideals in there!!!

[Rondel]: My problem with the poll is that the answer I would have to give as my honest opinion is NOT the one I like or would agree with. <sigh>

[Lordterrex]: ...... really.......

[Rondel]: First of all, it's not a poll about whom one would like to see win; second, it doesn't list any of the indepenent candidates... So it comes across as a "who would you vote for", or "who would you like" sort of poll", and the person I would *like* to see win is *not* the person I believe is most likely to win (nor are they listed). And I do mean "win", not just "be voted in", based on Bush's performance last time. For my reasoning on this, though, I'd have to go into a depth more suitable for the discussion/debate page, and I may or may not decide to spend my time and energy on such a post. We'll see. Feel free to watch for it.

[Lordterrex]: ..... ok.. i will do that.....

[wiccagal]:

CHEESE!

[wiccagal]: sorry. i'm just a bit spasmodic today. *hehehehe...*

[Lordterrex]: .... destroy the cheeese.....*blasts it with a cannon*

[Q_Q]: grrr all of u u have no fucking clue abut the groverment be nice to all do his job then come tell me how munch u hat him ok so till the stop this shit grrr

[Goldice]: its opinions.if you dont like what is said dont come here.it says that in the intro

[Lord Kügenheim]: whats with the grring? and before you say "we aint got a clue" read the argue and reasons page.

[Q_Q]: ok what abut kerry

[Q_Q]: tell me u dont like him

[Lord Kügenheim]: we didnt say that. No one who runs for election is perfect. they have all done something in the past that people dont like. But Bush just did stuff people dont like whilst in power.

[Q_Q]: ok cliton dont even tell me u liked him

[Maurer's conclusions]: What was wrong with Clinton?

[Q_Q]: he dum and gay he lide made the us look like puses

[Lord Kügenheim]: I personally dont remember Clinton. I remember as much of him as i Remember of John Major (him writing something on a bit of paper on the news) so i cant say. But what i can gather from whats been said elsewhere he "did unapropriate things whilst in office"

[Q_Q]: ya so there u go

[Christie Shadow]: You're off topic, my friend. This is about hating Buch - not Clinton, not Kerry, not anyone else. If you love Bush, then go on and start your own wiki. We happend to hate the guy, okay?? Could you please respect that and respect that we have our own view on him?

[Q_Q]: why do u hat him what did he do to u just asking

[kduncan]: Q_Q, first of all, the controversy regarding Clinton (ie: what he lied about) is irrefutable proof that he is absolutely NOT gay. He did not make Americans look bad, he made himself look bad by lying under oath. However, contrast lying about a little oral sex (which should have been a topic for he and Mrs. Clinton to lock horns about, to lying about the reasons for starting a war.

[Maurer's conclusions]: Clinton (aside from the incident in the Oval Office) was an excellent president. Look at what happened to the deficit under his leadership. He brought it from negative to positive, and now Bush has brought it down again.

[kduncan]: Remember, Monica Lewinski never brought charges against Clinton, what Ms. Lewinski and Clinton did was absolutely between two consenting adults, and was never a matter for anyone else to get involved with, except perhaps Mrs. Clinton. That the Republicans made the whole situation a legal matter was laughable, and was what actually made the US a laughing stock.

[Maurer's conclusions]: Rude, uncouth and irrelevant as this may sound, at least Clinton could get someone to give him oral sex...

[kduncan]: Now.. let's contrast the lie that Clinton made under oath, with the plethora of lies that Bush has made under (Presidential) oath. 1. Iraq is an imminent danger and has weapons of mass destruction. 2. Priority number one is to bring to justice the perpetrators of 911. 3.Passionate conservative. 4. Bring jobs to Americans. 5. Improve the economy. 6. No child left behind. .. are we getting the picture yet?

[Maurer's conclusions]: Bush's lies are legion... Impossible to list them all. However, the pathetic thing is that he probably thought he was telling the truth, since he simply said what his advisors told him to...

[wiccagal]: Bill Clinton was a good president Sure he had sex with monica lewinski, and lied to us about it, but he was a good president. I didn't like him, but he did good things for our nation. People always focus on the bad things when they think of Clinton, but he was a good politicion.

[kduncan]: Bush is a person who has never done anything to get anything he's ever had. He relied on his family name and money to get him into a prestigious Ivy League school, then could manage at best a "C" average in, get this: Business Administration. He relied on his father to get him into the National Guard, in a prime pilot position no less, then failed to show up for the required physical. He relied on friends to buy into companies he subsequetly buried in a morass of financial messes.. only to walk away leaving the stock holders and lower employees holding the worthless stock options (ala Enron).

[kduncan]: Bush has led the US on fear and hate, he's running his re-election campaign on fear and hate. In the US you can't listen to Bush address the nation without hearing the word "terrorism" rear it's ugly head.

[barutha]: , funny picture, i thought it might make some people laugh a bit. see orignal on this guy's deviantart account: http://tin-squid.deviantart.com/

[Lordterrex]: ... 0_o...... although i find the art... amusing.. lol... its not what u would expect to find on a political page.. on the other hand of course.. hehehe... it does have political things in it.... why does it matter how bush did in college?... although i dont know there names, i know america has been lead by 2 presidents with nothing more than a highschool education. so the fact that he went to college, says more than those two.. dosent it? and the fact that he got every with his name.. is an assumption, you cant really prove it, you assume it.

[kduncan]: The fact that he didn't do well in college attests to his lack of effort. Bush has coasted through life. He coasted through college, coasted through his alleged Vietnam service, coasted through job after job after job, and is coasting through his presidency. As his employer, I object strongly to having a person on the staff of people running this country that doesn't put forth his best effort: and George Bush has never put forth his best effort.

[kduncan]: And as for him getting everything with through his name and his association with others of wealth, can you prove he hasn't? Let me put it this way: without the benefit of his political and social connections, would a "C" student have a shot at getting into an Ivy league school? Would he have been able to dodge going to Vietnam? Would have been able to duck his National Guard service to do duty on a political campaign? Would he have been able to get the job as Governor of Texas or as President? Do you really think he'd have been able to do any of those things?

[kduncan]: LordTerrex, if you watched the Presidential debate, you should have seen that George Bush doesn't have the grey matter to hold the position he holds. He can't answer questions directed to him, can't argue the position he presumes to stand on; he can only fall back on one issue: Fear and terrorists. He can't even seem to pronounce the words "terrorist" or "America". Now, let me ask you something (and a reminder here, in messages to me you've conceeded that perhaps 911 didn't happen the way we're told it did), suppose 911 never happened, what platform would Bush stand on as his bid for re-election? He doesn't have any other platform.

[to a new?]: as of today in the daily southtown here in chicagos suburbs, the papers poll shows john kerry holds healthy lead over bush in illinois-kerry is beating bush by 11 percentage points carrying 52%of the bot to bushes 41 in the first major survey since last weeks presidential debate. but then 44% said they trust kerry more than bush to handle iraq and 44%said they trust bsuh more than kerry to handle iraq. wow this is going to be a tight race but i think kerry will have it.

[BarleySinger]: My opinion is that all political systems tend to attract people to office, who like to have and abuse power. Politcal ofices are a "pool of available power". That means that any government will degrade over time into a corrupt government, because it is mostly corrupt people who want to be in office in the first place. Those people will have their own self interest at heart first and foremost, and will work bit by bit to turn any government into one that has been designed to allow power brokering, graft, corruption, etc.

[Dil*]: yeah..kinda like the french aristocracy before the french revolution..bunch of nasties...that's why you try to keep the gap between the rich and poor reasonable.

[De Vierde Macht]: i heared the news freom teh us 'Sadam didn't posses nor was able to produce nuclear weapons" what's new?

[kduncan]: heh

[wiccagal]: if george bush was so concerned about nuclear weapons, why doesn't he take a look in the countries that have PROVED to have nulcear weapons? like north korea? i know their psychos and all, but isn't there anything we can do about them?

[Maurer's conclusions]: North Korea is a barren place. It doesn't have oil.

[Doormat]: it does have nukes though...

[Rondel]: Or the French Republicans, [Dil*], after the Revolution; have you ever read any of the contemporary accounts? Or even the accurate depiction in the historical fiction of the era (such as the Scarlet Pimpernel books)? It was understandable that the people wanted rights of their own, but what they did with power when they got it was horrifying. Remember, the guillotine was invented to allow mass-produced murder in the name of the State. Cliche as it may be, power corrupts -- and if the weilder has not worked to get their head on straight, every flaw in their character will be magnified, and the result will be chaos and death. Human history is rife with this sort of thing.

[Rondel]: As for the North Korea issue, seems to me that does a pretty good job of establishing whether the war was/is about nukes -- or about oil. Then again, so does the US energy policy, Bush's attitude toward the Kyoto Protocol, etc. The concensus among the scientists is that the oil is running out, so the US, like everybody else, has to take that into account in their energy policy; but, other countries chose to do that by raising the price of oil and researching other energy sources, while the US simply chose to appropriate everyone else's oil resources -- especially when they can come up with an excuse that further's Bush's Christian Crusade. He's not the first Crusader to gain by it.

[Dil*]: yep, a revolution goes through these steps, liberal reform, radical bloodletting, reaction to violence, and one strong leader emerges (napolean) in this case.

[Lordterrex]: dont u think the poll might be a bit one sided, i mean, majority people who will vote on that poll, is on this page.. or, from another country

[Lord Kügenheim]: yeah i noticed that.... since the most people who come here are either Kerry supporters or Bush haters, theres little chance of bush winning is there?

[to a new?]: i think so, but either way i don't think it will matter who gets presidency...this world is kind of set for doomsday, (my opinion)

[Peregrinus]: I tend to agree.

[Lordterrex]: *raises fist to the air*.. DOOMSDAY.... than anarky will settle in.. hehe

[Dil*]: umm....anarchy?

[Weedy]: doomsday will come no matter what we humans do.... its only a matter of when..... and its quite possible that it has allready happened more than once that was just before we humans existed..... oh what the fuck lets blame humans for those too.....

[to a new?]: dont blame humans, even though i fear your right...sometimes i think that the govt just needs to vanish and be filled with ppl of the country-ppl that have an actual knowledge about things because of the way they lived through it or are thru it. sometimes i just want to tell this govt to simply go to hell..sorry to be blunt but someones got to say it you know

[Dil*]: yeah...just a bunch of robbing bastards

[simply sweety]: bush has just screwed us and we may as well be aware of it